All posts by TroyNotes


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Warrior Special Offers Forum’s Price Increase – Not So Special Anymore

At least for newbies I think so.
After hearing so much about the Warrior Forum’s WSO as a easy place to start, and starting to focus on putting some info products together I decided to test things out, and bascially what might have worked a few months ago may not today, if you want the full scoop read on.
If you are here, I assume that you are already familar with the Warrior forum and contemplating putting your WSO up. It’s certainly seductive if you have a product in the IM space, as it’s much less overhead to get an offer up than other online than say google or facebook.
Wanting my first WSO to be a success, the first thing I did was study the guides out there.    The guide are pretty clear that timing is critical on the Forum to get the best amount of traffic without being bumped off by competing projects.  The guide recommended the top 2  times to be Thu@noon, followed by Sat@7am

Try 1:   Thu@ noon

The guides say the acceptance of these WSO offers can sometimes be finicky, as well the Warrior Forum has some strict requirements (special hoops) in creating the landing pages if you want to use video or formatting.
So before commiting the time for creating the whole product without any evidence that it would be accepted, I jumped through the hoops, and created a sales page and sales video and submitted the WSO thread for review.
Within 12 hours I was pleased to see the thread was approved,  I clicked over to the paypal saw the price was $20, I figured pretty easy at a $7 product to at least break even.
Before I could put it up for sale I had to finish the course, and get a separate business paypal hooked up a new business account, plus some product delivery scripts.  This should have taken a week, but then  basically all hell broke loose in my businesses, and the WSO project had to be put on a backburner for 30 days.
Staying up all night to finish the course and a real sales video, I went to pay for the thread and found that ….the approved thread was gone..apparently it expired and was deleted.  Quite the bummer.
Anyway I resubmittted the thread for approval and waited again, and in 10 hours it was approved for the 2nd time. But at that point it was in the deadzone.

Try 2:  Thu@noon.

Another 1 weeks clicked by, I had gotten some feedback on the course to make it better and this time with everything ready, I hit the WSO payment link and found that the WSO price was now $40 not $20. Hmm that’s going to make it harder to make money on a $7 product needing 6 sales.  Anyway I was commited to seeing it through, paid the $40, saw the thread on the WSO forum, and waited anxiously to see what happened.
Over the next 8 hours I got 5 sales which at $6.50 = $32.50, had the WSO run $20 that would have been a profit of 12. if you didn’t consider product costs and hosting + paypal $60/mo.   but the WSO now cost $40, so it was a loss of $7.  The competition was fierce, within less than 6-8 hours it was on page3 and all sales stopped.
However that wasn’t such a horrible thing, despite intial testing I found that 3 people that were getting paypal errors, that I had to follow up with each on to get the download.  Had I had dozens of sales let alone 100 it could have caused quite a headache.
I did get 2 new non-sale optins and some backlink love so that counts for something.

Try 3: Sat@6am

This was the 2nd most recommended time. 2 weeks later I tried it, this time “bumping” the thread which also ran $40.
I updated  sales pitch to be much shorter and using a video sales letter rather than the module1 from the course.
I got 1 sale, and within 12 hours I have been bumped off the front page.  So a loss of $34 for this go, and loss of $41 total (not including all the other costs).
I don’t know if the sales video is to blame or just the quality of the traffic.


Lots of things didn’t go to plan.
I have no doubt that people make money off WSO,  and if a person has a good connection to the Warrior Forum (a variation on having a list) with some JV’s it’s still possible to make 2-10K money.
I didn’t promote to my list as I was curious how well Warrior Forum is as a fresh traffic source, as I’ve heard “so much about it” and wanted to get an objective view of it.  Let’s look at it from a traffic source perspective:
I spent $80 on traffic, per Warrior Forum 609 views of the page (not sure how many unique) making it  about .13 an impression. In the range of cold traffic.Looking at other competing offers I saw similar view metrics, so I don’t think that it’s purely my product.
5 sales totally = ~.9% conversion rate, also on the low end of cold traffic. I think I could have done better with cold traffic actually with less competition from the rest of the site.
From the friends +family reviews I have the product is good, but the feedback is what I have is probably not the right fit for the WSO,  I had expected more interest and to feed that into testimonials and review copies. Instead I got mostly silence, not even that many questions.
Per youtube about 65 views of the sales video, so only 10% of the people hitting the page are interested enough to watch. I’ve seen much higher numbers from direct traffic.  Looking at competing pages I saw often comparible or worse sales letters so again I don’t think its’ that.
But it doesn’t scale well, about 5 views for every active hour, even bumping every day, I don’t think it’s enough traffic enough to really count on.
Which unfortunately makes WSO about the same or worse as other cold traffic sources.  Not that it’s supposed to be a primary income stream.


Basically I think like much of the training in the IM world, that what worked..maybe even as little as 3 months ago, no longer does at least to the same rules, and this isn’t good for breaking in.
A couple small changes can make the difference from profit to non-profit, and that’s the case here.
Raisign the price from $20 to $40 makes the number of sales needed from 3-4 to 6 to break even.
The guides I read suggested that posting would get you a couple days of visibility, I only saw a 6-14 hours. ..significant difference, and you are optimizing for hitting a 1/4 to 1/2 a day rather than several days.
Given even with the price hike I didn’t get much time on the first 2 pages, I can only imagine how short a time would have been before the price hike…the second in the last couple years. Maybe it’s just gotten super competitive for new WSO and rebumps?
Had I had 2 days of visibility and cost of only $20 it would have been profitable.
One option is charging more, if I had charged $17 with the same number of sales I would have made “made” $5, but the tradition is most things are $7 on the WSO forum, if you are starting out with no testimonials or feedback, I guess you have to start out giving things 100% for free, and plan on doing many bumps or rereleases…a long haul, given there’s not much steady traffic there.
Anyway, as much as I would have loved to make a profit, this was primarily a guinea pig getting me familiar to the process of creating content (as needed for some training on services I’m releasing) and making sure some things like the cart work.
From the friends +family reviews I have the product is good, but what I have is probably not the right fit for the WSO,  I had expected more interest and to feed that into testimonials and review copies. Instead I got mostly silence.
Next I will be trying with some utilities/tools and see how that fares. My theory is that tools require less social proof than courses as tools can be demoed with less effort.

List Control Launch- Observations

So if you’re like me you’ve probably getting bombarded by everybody, their brother, their dog with ticks and fleas all promoting List Control.  There is not a single link in this as I’m not selling it.  Just wanted to point out my observations.

First this Launch has had some of the largest bonuses I’ve ever seen some claiming to be  3x-10x the value of the product.  Probably because list building in and of itself is not rocket can be summarized by Frank in a single sentence:

Find what makes people happy, give it to them, and then sell them things that make them happier.

There are other list productions and email, to get to that point of being worth $2K means a lot has to be added on.

Ulterior motives central.


Four Day Cash Machine: while a solid tactic, note just how many guru’s promoting actually ran the offer recently?   This was part of Mass Control 2.0, in the ning forum a few people tried it, some had decent luck others got nasty grams from their list.  It really depends on how much rapport you have with your list, and how often you are communicating with them. If you talk like Frank then using his swipe copy is great, but if you don’t you may come across like somebody you’re not.  However it is a good tactic to have what I call portable products, that can be repurposed for different things. A stand alone product, a bundle with other things, a bribe in the future.

The CoreInfluence presentation,  which I found a -lifechanging- if  long-winded egocentric presentation, was originally to be shipped on DVD, but due to ‘production issues’, they just put it online, which is where the proving ground for the good karma machine giveaway in video 3 and the 476 double optins a day they cited as proof in the video.

I actually prefer online certainly don’t need another DVD copy (I have two already) but makes me wonder were there really production issues or was this desire to use the plugin and get the proof WAS the production issue? I don’t really care either way, just looking for truth in advertising.

While the plugin is a good strategy (a viral friend inviter, Frank private labelled).  How replicateable is that if the proof was gotten in this launch?  Launches are a form of inspiring temporary insanity (which is kinda what Launches/Mass Control are all about), much of the momentum for anything is riding on that.   When Elvis leaves the building can anybody just take the mic and stage lights to put on the same show?

The surprise bonus is  3 live days of training in San Diego, which will be filmed. I have been to Frank’s events before and they are fun, though Mass Control 2.0 was a pitch fest, getting people in the limited seats, makes those products prevalidated. You can hear the dialog in a quarter from now “these information was a sold out event, exclusive to people who spent $2K” so

It will force Frank to create 3 new products in the process, he gains the energy from the crowd so will do a better job, the DVD’s/videos will hopefully carry that energy.

Kajabi and the rise of the ASP.

The whole launch is running on Kajabi.  So again this launch (which say 500×2000 = $1Million EASY likely 3x that) . will be used, it wouldn’t surprise me if they have $50-$100Million in launches under Kajabi’s belt before they launch it..whenever that happens.  This isn’t a bad thing, but does make me wonder what’s beyond that.

Kajabi appears to be another step in the ‘growing up’ of the internet marketing community. The rise of the ASP (application Service providers).  In the tech space (where I come from) melting a server is likely to cost you and your team your job.  Here in the IM community though it’s viewed as a trophy of sorts as most don’t have enough traffic to even harm a host shared with 1000’s of others. So to the degree that Kajabi takes away that more power to them, and the better it is for this industry.

Kajabi has some interesting choices, I can’t tell if it’s good or bad.  They disallow people to put url’s in the comments field.  But given it’s a group of people that are all excited, all want attention, all are marketers, people just put the links in plain text instead.  Second where there are complaints or questions people reply to each other (even though there’s no notification). I understand that Kajabi is trying to keep the conversation on the topic of the lauch, but can’t help but wonder if they are missing the elements.  Slashdot and Digg have had this problem for years, in many ways getting on either of those sites is like a launch in the IM community, instant attention.  How they deal with trolls, questions etc via votes seems a less authorarian way to do it.

Magic Bullet System and Google Conversion Optimizer are also similar.

One of Frank’s core strategies

Do the opposite/unexpected, in the last video they changed from darks on whites, to lights on dark.

I’ve been thinking alot about Proof and Reputation lately.  I’ve noticed studying launch after launch that as

One of the facts that they pointed out was Frank made like $8-9Million last year. Mostly off of Internet Marketing related how to products, services (e.g. Mass Control Monthly at $10K/mo), consulting ($100K up front, 15% of results…on a launch like Magic Bullet this was a very nice chuck

Here’s another factor I use in my buying decisions.

Have I fully finished and gotten a return the products I already own.

Will the strategy work in my niche, e.g. Frank is celebrity based selling, might not work if you have a “I’ve got water, and they are thirsty” type product.

Is the information available in other places..odds are yes.

Will I absolutely have to have this information in the next month (when the training happens)

Will it likely be rereleased 6-12 months from now (e.g. List Control 2.0), might it be a better product then?

Could I use that $2K to generate higher ROI by using it on 1) more traffic, 2) creating products  3) hiring staff  ($2K is about 5 months of a high end Phillipino assistant, or 2.5 if you have 2-3).

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